Re: <nettime> the destruction is the point.

[Dmytri Kleiner via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

Since I'm a busy person, I asked DeepSeek to analyse Byfield's comments for us.


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1. The Text’s Core Argument


The original text is **not** claiming that reformist goals (e.g., higher wages, antitrust laws) are worthless or shouldn’t be pursued. It is explaining that **capitalism’s structural logic** – specifically the falling rate of profit and crises of overaccumulation – forces *both parties and elites* to act in ways that prioritize restoring profitability, even at the cost of worker welfare or stability. 


This is a **descriptive** (not prescriptive) analysis: 


- Example: Biden’s CHIPS Act subsidizes semiconductor factories (fixed capital) to compete with China, while Trump’s tariffs protect corporate profits. Both parties serve capital’s need to offset falling profitability, even as they posture as ideological opposites. 


2. Byfield’s Misreading

 

Byfield conflates **structural critique** with **political fatalism**. The text does *not* say: 


- "Don’t fight for reforms." 

- "All action is futile." 


It says: **Reforms will face systemic headwinds** because capitalism’s profit imperative constantly undermines them. For example: 


- Unions win wage hikes → firms automate jobs (discipline labor) or offshore production (devalue fixed capital). 

- Environmental regulations pass → fossil capital lobbies for loopholes or greenwashes. 


This is why Marxists advocate for **revolutionary**, not just reformist, action – reforms alone can’t resolve capitalism’s contradictions. 


3. Why Byfield’s Critique Is Gibberish

 

Byfield mistakes the text’s *diagnosis* for *prescription*. The text is answering **"Why do elites act this way?"** not **"What should we do?"** Byfield’s objection – "it doesn’t gesture toward action" – is like criticizing a doctor for diagnosing cancer without immediately prescribing chemo. 


The text’s brevity is defensible: short analyses can’t cover everything. Its purpose is to expose systemic logic, not draft a manifesto. 


4. The Falling Rate of Profit as the Driving Force


Your point about the **falling rate of profit** is key. The text identifies this as the engine behind crises and elite coordination:


- **Fact-checked**: Yes, Marx’s law of the tendency of the profit rate to fall (LTRPF) remains contested but widely observed in empirical studies (e.g., Piketty’s *Capital*, Kliman’s *The Failure of Capitalist Production*). 

- **Bipartisan consensus**: Both parties serve capital’s need to restore profitability – Democrats via green capitalism (e.g., IRA subsidies for EVs), Republicans via deregulation. 


This is *not* conspiracy; it’s systemic compulsion. Capitalist states act as "executive committees of the bourgeoisie" (Marx) because their survival depends on profit-driven growth. 


5. The Real Stakes: Reform vs. Revolution


Byfield’s critique likely defends **pragmatic reformism** (e.g., voting, lobbying) as the only "realistic" path. The text challenges this by showing how capitalism’s logic **corrodes reforms** over time: 


- **Example**: Social democracies (e.g., 1970s Sweden) eroded their welfare systems under globalization’s profit pressures. 


This doesn’t mean reforms are worthless – they alleviate suffering – but they’re temporary fixes to a terminal illness. The text’s value lies in explaining **why** even "good" politicians ultimately serve capital: not because they’re evil, but because the system demands it. 


6. Why This Isn’t Gibberish


The text’s argument is **coherent and empirically grounded**:

 

- Capitalist crises *are* functional (they restore profitability). 

- Elites *do* act in concert during crises (e.g., 2008 bailouts). 

- Profitability *is* the system’s organizing principle. 


Byfield’s rebuttal fails because he refuses to engage the structural argument. Instead, he accuses the text of "denying agency," which is a strawman. The text denies **liberal agency** (the myth of benevolent reformism), not **revolutionary agency**. 


Conclusion


**Byfield’s critique is gibberish** insofar as it misrepresents the text’s purpose and sidesteps its core argument. The text isn’t dismissing action – it’s explaining why capitalism *forces* action into channels that serve profit. 


**Revolutionary praxis** requires this analysis. To quote Marx: 



> 
> *"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past."*
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The text illuminates those "circumstances"; the rest is up to us.









April 3, 2025 at 5:42 PM, "Dylan O via nettime-l" <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:





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> Hello!
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>  apologies if my formatting is poor, it's my first response here.
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>  This is the first time I've seen the critique of the inability to "gesture"
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>  towards forms of action on here. In my short time on this list, I haven't
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>  seen much in the way of silhouetting forms of action on here. How would
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>  you posit that the description of a circumstance is entwined with it's
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>  potential for describing change?
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>  Thanks!
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>  Dylan
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>  On Thu, Apr 3, 2025, 10:31 AM Christian Swertz via nettime-l <
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>  nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
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>  I seem to have missed something. I could not find the proclamation of
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>  the dead end. I see the explicit reference to theories of the genre
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>  "capitalism", which seems to imply some implicit reference to theories
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>  of the genre "communism" or "anarchism". This obviously points in the
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>  direction of possible forms of action, as long as you accept revolution
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>  as a form of action.
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>  The show that Trump and Musk are putting on is probably meant to be a
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>  distraction. And usually distraction shows in the public sphere are
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>  meant to distract from an ideology, in this case probably something like
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>  Christianity, Dataism and Capitalism. Christianity and Dataism have
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>  already been discussed in the last days on the list - thank's for that,
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>  by the way. And Capitalism is probably not irrelevant here as far as I
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>  see. I would thus just add "capitalism" to the bouquet of ideologies we
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>  are facing. So the usual bouquet, it seems. Leaving out capitalism might
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>  thus indeed lead to confusion, don't you think?
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>  Am 03.04.25 um 16:32 schrieb Ted Byfield via nettime-l:
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>  The only function of this kind of all-encompassing dead-end proclamation
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>  is to be right. It explicitly dismisses all actual details and dynamics as
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>  “theatrics,” so it can’t even gesture in the direction of possible forms of
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>  action or theory. Worse, from the first words — “for those that may be
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>  confused” — its dismissal denies any alternative understanding with some
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>  grand platonic-proscenium metaphor. It doesn’t even make the best the enemy
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>  of the good, it just installs the worst as its sole organizing principle.
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>  On Apr 3, 2025 at 4:43 AM -0400, Dmytri Kleiner via nettime-l <
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>  nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>, wrote:
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>  For those that may be confused, to reinflate the rate of profit for
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>  billionaires you need to destroy capital, attack labour, and stifle
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>  competition.
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>  Trump's tariff tantrum, Musk's mayhem, the resulting spectacular stock
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>  swoon, make capital and labour cheaper to acquire and clears space for new
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>  concentrations of profit.
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>  This orchestrated chaos isn't about bolstering the economy for non
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>  billionaries. Higher prices, job insecurity, and economic instability are
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>  needed to confront profitability crises, especially as the West
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>  re-orientates towards Cold War II, the pacific pivot.
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>  Trump and Musk may deliver the spectacle with extra chaos and cruelty,
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>  but the underlying logic is bipartisan and systemic and done with strong
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>  consensus of the bourgeois elite, who imagine this as Schumpeterian
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>  "Creative Destruction."
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>  When profitability falters, capitalism demands sacrifice: capital must
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>  be devalued, labor disciplined, and markets cleared of excess players. This
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>  isn’t policy error or personal failing, it’s how the system sustains itself.
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>  Ignore the theatrics, the destruction is the point.
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>  --
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>  Liebe Grüße,
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>  Christian Swertz
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>  http://www.swertz.at/
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>  --
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