Re: <nettime> the destruction is the point.

[Dmytri Kleiner via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

This reeks of telling me to stfu, just like Byfields comments, while continuing the trend, as DeepSeek pointed out, of misrepresentint the point and sidesteping my core argumenents.

I'm ok with a bit of humour on nettime, honestly, as well as critically engaging with modern tech trends, including (*gasp*) LLMs, and trying to post with style (at the risk of being cool, I know)

I'm also ok with sticking to the point tho.

It's telling that the core points remain unaddressed. No interest in the role of profit, just telling me I'm one of those bad marxists who's mean and crushes liberal dreams.

Don't intend into be male, just noting what gets reproach and what doesn't.

Best,


April 4, 2025 at 12:25 PM, "Anne Roth via nettime-l" <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:



> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I don't think anyone benefits from these types of emails that reek of male 'I'm cooler than you'.
> 
> You might want to take this off list.
> 
> Anne
> 
> Am 4. April 2025 11:22:54 MESZ schrieb Dmytri Kleiner via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:
> 
> > 
> > April 4, 2025 at 10:44 AM, "Caspar Clemens Mierau via nettime-l" <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > I was surprised – and to be honest, a bit concerned – by the decision to outsource a response to Byfield’s text to an LLM.
> > > 
> > 
> > This is the fully automated luxury communism we where promised. I'll respond to concise, substantive arguments, technolgical advancement has freed us from the chains of needing to respond to gibberish.
> > 
> > If you disagree with DeepSeek, let me know why. Usefully, it's very accurate in this case.
> > 
> > The conclusion presented is:
> > 
> > **Byfield’s critique is gibberish** insofar as it misrepresents the text’s purpose and sidesteps its core argument. The text isn’t dismissing action – it’s explaining why capitalism *forces* action into channels that serve profit.
> > 
> > No lies detected.
> > 
> > I also asked Manus earlier to do a fact check of my original post.
> > 
> > It produced a whole PDF, all of which is fairly well done (ask if you want a copy), and included this summary, far supperior to Byfield's human effort.
> > 
> > FACT-CHECK: Economic Claims About Billionaires, Capital Destruction, and Profit Rates
> > 
> > After thorough research, I find that:
> > 
> > The economic mechanisms described (capital destruction, labor discipline, market concentration) are well-supported by evidence. Trump's tariffs cost U.S. companies $1.7 trillion in stock value, Tesla's stock declined 36-41% in 2025, and X was devalued from $44B to $33B.
> > 
> > Labor market data shows 81% of U.S. workers worried about job loss in 2025, with lower-income households experiencing slower wage growth. Consumer pessimism about unemployment is at a 10-year high.
> > 
> > Industry consolidation is increasing, with multiple consulting firms projecting more M&A activity in 2025, particularly in tech and healthcare sectors.
> > 
> > While the economic mechanisms are empirically verifiable, claims about intentionality ("to reinflate profit rates") and systemic necessity ("capitalism demands sacrifice") represent interpretive frameworks rather than empirically verifiable facts.
> > 
> > The text presents a coherent economic analysis from a Marxist perspective. The empirical evidence supports many of the economic mechanisms described, though the interpretive framework about intentionality represents one economic perspective among several possible interpretations of the same phenomena.
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> 
> -- 
> 
> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> 
> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> 
> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> 
> # more info: https://www.nettime.org/
> 
> # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
>
-- 
# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
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# collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
# more info: https://www.nettime.org
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